[00:00:02] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to the Culture of Things podcast. I'm your host, Brendan Rogers and this is episode 69 and today I'm talking with Justin Brown, aka Chris Martin. Justin, along with his brother Mike are the founders of Primal Video where they teach entrepreneurs and business owners how to leverage the power of online video to build and scale their businesses. Justin has spent more than 20 years in video production and has worked on everything from Netflix featured documentaries to music videos and extreme sports projects. Over the past seven years, Justin and Mike have focused their energy on building Primal Video. They target systems, processes and automation which allow them to work smarter, not harder. Primal Video is now a seven figure automation driven business with over 1 million YouTube subscribers and they help others implement the same approach through their Primal Video accelerator program. Today we're focused on unpacking the Primal Video journey. Justin, welcome to the Culture of Things podcast.
[00:01:00] Speaker B: Thank you very much for having me on.
[00:01:01] Speaker A: It's a pleasure, mate. Now I had a bit of a slight at you through a lot of your stuff. There's always this reference to Chris Martin. What's going on there?
[00:01:09] Speaker B: We just started getting these YouTube comments through. It's Chris, Chris from Coldplay. I mean I had to google him to work out who Chris Martin was. But yeah, it's now something that comes up all the time. Apparently I've got a very good looking twin. That's all I can take away from that.
That's, yeah, apparently look like Chris Martin.
[00:01:27] Speaker A: Well, I have to say I do follow a bit of Chris Martin's stuff and you know, getting to know you through your Primal Video stuff and everything. And just even before we got on this recording. Now you're both pretty decent blokes, so you've got, you've at least got that in common.
[00:01:40] Speaker B: Thank you very much. I mean, no one wants to hear me sing. Let's just squash that one right now.
[00:01:45] Speaker A: You and me both, mate. I won't ask you to sing, you don't ask me. Some will be good.
[00:01:49] Speaker B: Perfect.
[00:01:50] Speaker A: Done, mate. It's a pleasure having you on today. And look, the Primal Video stories is a fascinating story for me and as I said, my producer and business partner Mark, he got me onto your stuff. Do you just want to give a, you know, I've given a little bit of a background of it, but how about you just share with our listeners a bit about Primal Video just to start with, just a summary version of what it is, what it's about.
[00:02:09] Speaker B: Yeah, so we started primal video around seven years ago. We kind of started out on YouTube as everyone does at zero. And we just wanted to create some videos to help people. So we already had previous businesses that I built with my, my brother and now current business partner again, Primal Video. So we had previous businesses before and I guess I was working on this documentary project because we were still kind of doing our own thing. We were dabbling with these other businesses and one of these documentary projects I worked on, I got to fly around the world and interview the top people in online digital marketing. And they were really, really nice people and they built these businesses around just helping people and sharing the stuff they're interested in. So that's what kind of inspired us to start the YouTube channel. But it's been a big journey to actually figure it out and make it work. And really, I mean for us our YouTube channel is the face of our business. It's not our business. So that's what we teach now. We teach people how they can create effective videos, videos that get views. So you're not just creating something that no one sees, but then how you can build a real business and monetization everything off the back of it so that you can have more impact with your content. So in a nutshell that that's what we do. It's been a long journey. The first few years we really had no idea what we were doing and there was a lot of trying, testing, failing and learning. But now we've just. Everything for us now is a system. There is a process for everything. And as someone who was an anti process person and hated the idea of being put in a box, I now love what the systems and the processes are doing and how much freedom and flexibility it's actually giving us.
[00:03:43] Speaker A: Yeah mate. And that's some of the stuff we're certainly going to unpack. What I'm just interested, I want to take us back because you know, we're sitting here today, 2022, what Justin Brown like in high school.
[00:03:54] Speaker B: Oh, that feels like an absolute lifetime ago. I think I was pretty quiet. I was definitely an IT geek nerd. I loved anything to do with computers. I have an IT degree as well. So I guess I've always been interested in the video side of things as well. And that's where I like Primal video. And what we've built now is it really combines the tech and the IT with the video. And I, I guess this is what we teach too, is that if you can find something that you want to talk about that if someone stopped you in the midd of the street and said hey, I've got this Question for you. So for me, it's anything to do with, you know, cameras. It.
Anything to do growing on YouTube. This is the stuff I love and this is why this business works so well for me. And this is why we'd encourage anyone to look at your hobbies, look at your passions when you are starting something like this, because you're going to push through on those darker days and days where you're not motivated, you'll be able to get motivated much quicker and it's something you're going to. You're going to be committed to. So, yeah, that was kind of me. Bit of a nerdy geek. Always hanging around the beach as well, though, living on the Sunshine coast in Queensland, Australia. So a beach nerd, if that is such a thing.
[00:05:01] Speaker A: Yeah, it was amazing how these beach nerds go off and do some amazing things actually, isn't it? So do you guys look back sometimes and just pinch yourself? You know, the Primal Video team and what you've achieved to date and, you know, you've got so much more sort of coming.
[00:05:16] Speaker B: It's kind of a strange thing because I guess from my side and I mean, you make videos and stuff as well. What we see when we're making the videos, we're just looking at a camera lens and it's a strange thing. I mean, my background is behind the camera. I've been producer, director, editor, cameraman for a big chunk of my professional career. So to actually get in front of the camera. I used to hate having my photo taken and all of this. So this has all been a learning experience for me. And it's still weird, but I like the outcome of making the videos and you've got to remember that, yeah, like you get 100 views, a thousand views, whatever it is, like, those are real people on the other side of that. So all of this is kind of. It's been a big growth, a big learning experience, but it is seeing the, I guess the results from that and seeing the impact and how much we can help people with our content is really what just keeps driving us to the next level.
[00:06:09] Speaker A: When did the penny drop for you around this whole idea of what now is a successful primal video business, but was there a penny drop moment of, hey, we to. We need to do something with this? And this is what it may start to look like.
[00:06:23] Speaker B: I guess something that stood out for me really early on and for Mike was, I mean, we were going at YouTube for a year and a half, two years with really not a lot of growth. And as a business decision to put out videos. It was becoming a bad business decision to continue doing it because it wasn't working. We could have definitely invested time and money and resources into other things if we'd continue without trying to figure it out. But we started to get some comments through, like, thank you so much. You've helped me make my first video. Thank you so much. You've helped me create a video where I'm raising awareness for autistic children. Was a comment that came through. And that's one that's really stuck with me. And it's kind of that light bulb moment. Like, it's not about me. It's not about my fear of being on camera or how I sound or imposter syndrome or any of the other stuff that's pretty common for people when they get into this. It really became, we need to figure this out because there's people that need to hear what we have to say. And that was kind of enough proof just like, okay, let's, let's really take a step back. Let's look at this. What does YouTube need? What do we need to put in our videos so that people actually will stick around and watch them? And that kind of became the journey then through again, all the trying, testing and everything to refine a process and to build something where we know we're giving YouTube everything that it needs. We're giving our viewers everything that they need so we have the best chance of having our content show up and work for us.
[00:07:43] Speaker A: Yeah, it's been a real journey of learning, which is what we all should be on. But if you can go back to those early days, that might be the first 12 months, say that what's that greatest lesson that you learned which may have been off the back of the biggest challenge you had?
[00:07:58] Speaker B: Yeah, the biggest lesson was how we were approaching our YouTube channel. We weren't really doing any research. I was just coming up with a random video idea. Like, this is a good tip. This is a good piece of information that people need to know. But the problem is people aren't searching on Google or YouTube for the solution or for the tip. They don't know what it is, they need to know it. But they're back stuck at the problem. So they're going to Google and YouTube to self diagnose and to figure stuff out. How do I fix this? How do I film? Can I film with my phone? What editing software? How do I edit? Like, and these are kind of what's evolved now into the stuff that we teach from there. But it's taking that step back and saying what does YouTube need and what are the viewers looking for? Let's give them that, let's meet them where they're at and then I can introduce them to the tips and things that I know that are going to change the game for them. So it was, it was a shift in perspective on how we were creating content and approaching YouTube.
[00:08:51] Speaker A: I know I'm jumping around a little bit. You know, I've sort of taken you back to school and sort of back to the early days. I just. What does the end game look like for you guys in Primal Video?
[00:09:01] Speaker B: It's a really interesting question and we bounce this one around a lot because we're not ones that really run out there and set these massive goals. Like we want to have X amount of dollars in the, in the bank or our business needs to be worth this, we need this team. Or like for us it's more we want to create a lifestyle business where we can have fun and we get to work with the people we want to work with. We don't want to be on some hamster wheel of, you know, doing sponsor deals and work on someone else's schedule. For, for us it really is. If it's not, what's the book? Yes or no? If it's not, if it's not a hell yes, it's a no. And that's kind of our filter. So as for like where we're going, we just want to show up and help more people with this which in turn grows the business.
So that's kind of our goal. And I know that may seem very vague or whatever, but it's enough for us to, to be pumped to do it. And right now we're still growing the team, we're looking at how we can do things more efficiently and, and refine the process. So it's always like it's never one and done. There's always improvements that can be made and that's kind of the fun piece. Mike and I love problem solving and we love looking at systems and automations and things that we can do. And for me I'm always looking at how do I improve my on camera performance, how do I improve the research, how do I improve how people are receiving the information as well. So that's kind of the stuff that drives us.
[00:10:22] Speaker A: Tell us a little bit more about that self reflection or that improvement process for you. What does that actually look like, that self improvement side?
[00:10:30] Speaker B: Yeah, I guess it's kind of like the atomic habits, the striving for that 1% on everything. And I know that you hear that thrown around a lot, but it really is kind of a lot of little debrief meetings. And whether that's just me reflecting on, okay, I filmed today. What are all the things that went well? What are all the things that didn't go well? What could I do better? If there's anything at all, what could I do better? And we take that into everything, into our weekly meetings, into everything that we're doing in the business. And. And that's kind of the people that we want to get on our team or that we are getting on our team is people that are just looking forward. Like, just because we've always done it this way doesn't mean this is the best way to do it. I mean, we were geeking out a little bit before this on some tech, and it's the same. Like, there's always a new thing popping up, and this is what excites me about it. Like, phones are always changing. Cameras are always changing. Ways to record podcasts and video interviews are changing. That's the stuff that I like. So it's always. There's always something. There's always a next level, and it will save you time, it will save you money, it will give you a better end result.
But too many people, I think, are just stuck. All right, this is how we've always done it. That's how it always has to be for us. We want to be fluid with it, and we enjoy it.
[00:11:40] Speaker A: I just want to clarify something. You said it wasn't me and you geeking out. It was you and Mark geeking out. I was like a third wheel on a date, to be honest.
[00:11:47] Speaker B: You're in it.
[00:11:48] Speaker A: All this stuff's going over my head. I'm like, what's going on here in regards to the feedback? So has there been a moment where you've received. Maybe in. The timing of. It was pretty brutal feedback, but it's been the best feedback to get to really help you constantly.
[00:12:05] Speaker B: Constantly. So, like, Mike, he's my brother, and that's. This is where this works really well, is that we have conversations that you probably couldn't have with an employee, or it would be an awkward conversation. Right. We're straight shooters. If I've messed up or if he can see that there's something better. And it goes both ways. The feedback is just direct. And it did take me a little while to receive that in a way where I wasn't just defending. Defending it straight away. Oh, that's because of this or you missed like the excuses like playing, playing the victim there, you know, getting all defensive, it's really taking the time. Like there's clearly something in this and whatever it is, let's, let's receive it, let's take it on board and let's look at what we can do to change. And I think if you're not doing that, it's very hard to grow. But yeah, it's, it was hard to receive for a few times. So we had to spend a bit of time looking at the different personality profiles and I mean that's a whole different area of how you can communicate and how do you communicate more efficiently and effectively, which flows through to our video stuff as well. But if I know what Mike needs in a conversation, if I go to him with an idea and it's literally just an idea and I haven't fleshed it out, his personality profile type wants to question it. What about this? What about this?
And I'm just like, hey, this is just a random idea. I haven't fleshed it all out. But for him, he wouldn't present an idea unless he kind of thought it through more. And it was those kinds of conversations where he'd be frustrated because I hadn't thought it out more. But I'm just getting my brand new idea shut down. It's that kind of stuff that yeah, it could definitely compound if you don't fix it or at least look at things from the other person's perspective. So that's, that's been a big, you know, a lot of, I guess, soul searching and, and understanding the different personality profile types. And that's now what we take into our hiring process as well for the different roles that we have. It's, we get them to do the Myers Briggs test. There's lots of other ones as well, like the disc profile and everything. And it's more just to gain some insight into how does this person think, what are they going to need from me if I'm, if I'm coming to them with something or a problem or a task for them or how much information are they going to need and in what way am I going to need to say this so that they will be sort of excited to go and take it on board or that we can progress the conversation from there?
[00:14:32] Speaker A: Yeah, mate, thanks for sharing that. A lot to unpack there and I will circle back to it. What I'd like to just also ask you around that feedback side is has there been a time where you've delivered feedback and it's been really challenging for you to deliver that feedback. But the benefits, as we know, are enormous when done the right way.
[00:14:51] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, so even fairly recently with staff, we kind of have this rule, like we have processes and systems for everything and then do that, but then you can build on top of it. And there's always tough conversations with people where you want to be delicate with it, with the feedback and say, look, we missed this or we missed this. And it's not the first time it's happened. So it's not a process problem. It becomes a person following a process problem. And that feedback is very hard for people to receive if it's not done right. And, you know, again, people are going to get their defenses up or it's because of this, this, you know, excuses or reasons, and they're all good. But I guess what I'm trying to say is it really comes down to integrity and just owning 100% responsibility. And this is something that, that we look for and that we try to hold as well. Like if I'm taking on a task or if I'm showing up for a podcast or whatever it is, like, there's, yeah, there stuff that could happen, but what can I do to make sure that everything is as best received from both sides as it could be? Like, if, if I get stuck in traffic, it's beyond my control. So I could play the victim card. Sorry, I wasn't there, you know, because stuck in traffic or what do you do in that moment? Do you jump on the, you know, on the phone straight away and say, look, this is the situation. Here's the best I can do. Like, here's. Here's my eta. So it's full ownership, full responsibility of every little task. So, yeah, there's been some conversations around that, but it normally falls back to that ownership just slipping on tasks. I'm not sure if that's landed or that's made sense, but it's a pretty big thing. But it's hard to do, mate.
[00:16:31] Speaker A: From where I sit in the work I do, it makes extreme sense, perfect sense. Have you ever had a situation where that extreme level of ownership just hasn't worked? You've taken on a team member and, and they've just not been able to handle that extreme level of ownership because it is a, you know, it is a special ability to do that. There's huge power in it happening, but not a lot of people can handle it.
[00:16:52] Speaker B: We have definitely had previous staff members where the ownership piece was slipping constantly, and I guess it's something that definitely can be learned, but it's got to be want to want to be learned. And some people would just want to tick their nine to five, hey, I've done my hours and leave.
The people that do have that responsibility and that ownership in it are the ones that are pumped to be there. They're enjoying their role. They love to, to come to work on a Monday. Not, you know, it's Monday. So it is finding the right people. And for us, we like to hire through the mailroom strategy where we're getting people across a lot of different tasks and we tell them this like just so we can see. I mean, we have our goal for the role, but we also want to test them and see what they like. Because if we're able to put projects and tasks and stuff that are in their wheelhouse, that are going to light them up, then they are more likely to enjoy it, to have more fun, to pursue that and grow in that role in that direction, but also take that responsibility on board. So it's not just here, this is what you have to do. It's crafting the role around the individual as well, which is where finding the right people to join your team and matching personalities and things is a huge thing. Not just saying, I just want a video editor. This is all you're going to do. You're going to sit there at that desk and edit videos. They might like that, but not 24 7, you know, so it is shaping that. They've got a really good creative outlet. Let's give them some other projects as well. Or really, ideally they're putting their hand up to say, I'd really like to take this on board. So they're mixing up their day, mate.
[00:18:20] Speaker A: It's all common sense stuff. And we know that saying that, you know, if it was common sense, everyone would be doing it. And what you've just spoken about, not everyone's doing. And actually it's in the minority, rather majority in leadership. Where did you learn this?
[00:18:32] Speaker B: I guess we've been in mastermind groups for years. We're big, big advocates for just getting peer eyes and different businesses on your business and just learning from people in different industries. And it is something that Mike and I, we read a lot of books, we listen to a lot of audiobooks. There's again, no one's done. There's always a next level, there's always more you can learn. But it's also through our own experience. Like if we have an employee that doesn't work out, then we'll Sit there and we'll do that debrief. Like, what didn't work? What can we do next in our hiring process to find that trait that we're looking for?
And it is something that we're constantly evolving. And it really is, again, that drive to. If you've been in a position where you don't like the outcome and you don't change anything, then you're likely going to be in that same outcome again.
So this is what can we learn? What can we do different? What can we try? There's no guarantee that the next thing is going to do it. So for us, we're always trying and testing new stuff, we're trying and testing new content and not all of it works.
Still, seven years in with the channel, the size that we have, we put out the occasional video that totally tanks. But it's a test for us and that's our approach. And that way, if it's a test, you don't really have an attachment to the outcome. It doesn't matter. It's like, good, we learned a lot. Let's not do that one again, or let's try this one a little bit different. But it's never a bad thing. You've learned a ton from it.
[00:19:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Again, all these things you talk about require a level of what I call strong professional relationships. So in order to have strong professional relationships, you've got to work at it. You've got to be deliberate. What do you guys do in your business to develop those strong professional relationships which enables the candidness, the openness in conversation, feedback and people not taking it personally?
[00:20:15] Speaker B: I guess for us, I mean, you've got to try and find it before you hire the person or at least try and find it in their onboarding or their trial period. So we have like a three month trial or a six month trial. You need to, obviously that's a paid period.
You need to try and work those things out. Like, are they a fit for the team? Are they someone who is a self starter, who is motivated, who is actually going to enjoy their role? And. And what we say to our team is that there really is no limit as to where this job can go. The more things you take on, the higher you raise yourself.
I don't care if these are the tasks that have got to be done, but it doesn't mean you need to do them. You could have a team of VAs or hire someone else under you, that's perfectly fine and will help you and support you with that. But the more responsibilities that they take on the more value they are to the business, to the company. Company. So how we find those is really now, you know, through our interview process. And it's asking questions that aren't your standard interview questions.
One that I really like is it's a random question. I gotta frame it this way, you know, if you had a billion dollars, what would you do with it? And you'll get all different things. I donate this to charity or I'll do this, you know. But what you're looking for in there is that there's. And sometimes you've got to dive a little deeper from the surface level. Answers is there's some people that are just happy to retire on a tropical island and do nothing with their day. Right? That's perfectly fine. That's one type. There's other people that will get bored and they've got to be learning, they've got to be doing something. You know, you got all the money in the world, what would you do? So that's, that's kind of then your seed. We want the people that aren't just going to kick off, switch off and read a book on a tropical island. I mean, that sounds amazing. That's not me. I can't switch off easily. But I also really, really love what I'm doing. So to me, it's not, you know, it's. It's not something I need to switch off for. But an owner of the business will find it much easier to play in that space than. You can't expect your employees to do the same. So the personality traits and the way that they answer those types of questions is, is really how you can find the right people.
[00:22:18] Speaker A: What other interests or what other traits are you looking for in these team players, I'd call them, I think, I.
[00:22:24] Speaker B: Think the biggest one would be attention to detail and that integrity. As we spoke on, like, we asked them to share an example of where they might have been out of integrity. And this is. But what they did to fix it so you can see that they can take ownership. I was late or I overcharged a customer or whatever it is, missed a deadline. But it's what they did because that's going to show. Did they take ownership? Did they feel bad about it and what did they do to fix it so that everyone makes mistakes? But it's. What are you going to do when that happens? Not if that happens.
So those are the kinds of things that I guess we're looking for. I answer your question there.
[00:23:03] Speaker A: Yeah, mate, you did again, I just term it A team player, because again, watching your stuff and being involved in the community that you guys are leading, there's very much that team feel that comes through and the support that your team offers. So to me, you must be deliberate about this stuff because that stuff just doesn't happen naturally. If it did, workplaces would be a much better place. Leaders need to be a lot more deliberate about it. That's why it's just really interesting to unpack what you're talking about because there's so much sense coming from it.
We need to talk about the other part of this bromance that you've got with your brother Mike. Tell us a bit about the partnership.
[00:23:41] Speaker B: So we're 5050 in the business.
It's just easier. And this is where, I guess if we were looking back at where we started, if one of us had employed the other one in this business, we would have fired each other early on. We had to work out how we could communicate and how we could give the person everything they need in every conversation to make it a good conversation and benefic.
But we work so well together. There's a. We share a lot of similar traits, but at the same time a lot of the personality stuff are also complete opposites and it just brings something different to the table. So Mike is definitely the more process systems oriented person, whereas, you know, I'm more come up with a random idea and let's go try it.
So it's, it's good because he's constantly shooting down my ideas, but every now and then one, one goes through. But I think it is, it is a good mix and it does work. And I guess with the same approach of looking and striving for that next level and that nothing, nothing is perfect. Like, but what's the next thing? How do I refine this? How do I tweak this? How do I do something better? Is something that we both share. Like with this lifestyle business, it doesn't need to be a 9 to 5 thing.
We only release one video a week on YouTube and we've automated a lot of our business, including a lot of our membership site as well. Well, and we now get to choose the tasks and things that we take on.
So for Mike, I mean, he spends his day jumping between coffee shops, Brazilian jiu jitsu, yoga. Like he's, you know, and works in between. Whereas for me, I've got, I've got kids, so I want to be able to pick them up from school or drop them off at school. And so you kind of build the Business around your non negotiables. And if you can get team that can kind of want to play in that space too, where they feel that they can go and do yoga or something in the middle of the day, then it just creates a great environment for everyone to work.
[00:25:32] Speaker A: And just for clarity too, Mike's in Singapore. You're on the sunny coast in Queensland. Where's the rest of your team located?
[00:25:38] Speaker B: Yeah, so we up until, I guess two years ago, I think it was, we had online teams. So a lot of VAs and online graphic designers. And we made the call that we, if we really want to build this, we want to build the team culture. So do we build an office in Singapore, have everyone there with Mike? Do we build it here on the sunny coast with me and yeah, I guess for me, even with all the amount of international travel and stuff that.
[00:26:03] Speaker A: We used to take the sunny coast any day.
[00:26:05] Speaker B: Yeah, same. So this is where, yeah, we ended on the sunny coast and we now have, we have two full time in the office on the sunny coast. We're hiring our third, but we still have a few online VAs and graphic designers and those kinds of things as well. Like you don't need everyone in there, but just having people in the same room in those sort of, I guess, higher touch positions, they're across so much more in the business. So they're of so much more value when even if they're just listening in on conversations or meetings, they pick up things, they, they bring more ideas to the table. And it's very hard to get that if you're only sort of just sending a task to a VA and there's no real back and forth with them, they're going to miss a lot of things. So that's kind of what we wanted to build and just yeah, find some, some cool people to have some fun with.
[00:26:52] Speaker A: At the same time, just staying specifically with yourself and Mike and the leaders in the business.
What's the biggest downside for you, if any, about having yourself and Mike in different locations?
[00:27:04] Speaker B: Well, I think the best part is that I don't need to see him every day. And I can see it.
[00:27:08] Speaker A: I'm asking for the downside.
[00:27:09] Speaker B: All right, the downside.
Well, yes, the downside is that we don't see each other every day. I mean we talk a lot and whatever and with the time zones we're pretty lucky there's only a two hour time difference. But in, in Singapore, typically people will sleep in and don't start work till sort of 10, 11 o' clock, but they'll work later at night. So again, this was all stuff that we kind of had to work out because at 10 o' clock, my time, that's 8 o', clock, he'll still be working, but I'm done.
So this was stuff that we had to kind of work through. And yes, there's always things that will pop up and it's never a problem, but it's how do we form the working relationship? Where there is, is downtime, there is switch off and you know, unless it's urgent, it's wait till tomorrow. And that's where I guess we've built the business in a way that there really is nothing urgent unless we're in the middle of a launch or something like that. It's, is it a big deal if we release a video a day late or, you know, there's nothing that's going to take down the business that they can't wait a day or get pushed off or anything like that. So I guess we've kind of designed it that way to build that flexibility. But if we were in person more, it's just those extra conversations and little things that we wouldn't have to be filling each other other in on constantly. And obviously having the team here. Mike actually hasn't met any of the team in person. So that's, I mean it's good, it's working. But I think he would have a deeper relationship with them, you know, if he was able to come back and hang out with them as well. So we're hoping that happens soon.
[00:28:34] Speaker A: What do you do as well to make, you know, I know Mike's equal partner in the business, owner of the business, but what do you do to make him feel like he's not a second class citizen, let's say because it's very easy for people to feel second class citizen like when they're out outside of the, the office and the main team.
[00:28:51] Speaker B: I wouldn't say Mike's an introvert, I'd say he's a shy extrovert and I guess he doesn't need like if we go to a conference or something, it must be weird because I, I get recognized. But then there's a lot of people who don't know who he is yet. He does equal, if not more work behind the scenes, you know, to, to grow the business. So there's I, but I don't know, I guess we have that conversation.
He would turn down most podcasts, most interviews and things. There's a few that he jumps on, but he's like for him, he doesn't need it. He'd rather not have it. I mean, to be honest, I don't need it either. We literally scissor paper rocked to see who was going to be the face of this when we started. And I thought I was the behind camera person. I'm like, no, no, I'll film you, Mike, I've got to film you. And he said, I can't talk about video stuff. I'm not the video guy. So it is an interesting one. But I guess neither one of us, we're happy to try and do different things and to mix it up and there is no rigid like this is how it has to be. He has made a few videos on our YouTube channel. He does offer a lot of the training inside of our accelerator program as well. So it's more like who is best suited for what task and which ones do we want to do? Which one should we try and outsource or get someone else to do?
[00:30:08] Speaker A: Well, you say Mike doesn't necessarily like to do podcasts, but we've got to throw the challenge out to him. You've done this podcast. So if he's any sort of brother, he's got to make sure he gets on the culture of things podcast as well, mate, doesn't he?
[00:30:19] Speaker B: 100%, Mike?
[00:30:20] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:30:21] Speaker B: Yep. That's it. You guys heard it here first.
[00:30:24] Speaker A: Absolutely, mate, absolutely. Throw down the gauntlet. You spoke a little bit about how you know the roles and working that stuff out in the roles. How did that just talk us a little bit through how that came about, like the sort of conversations you had and you know that the sussing out of, hey, you know what, I'm actually going to be much better for the business in doing this stuff and you doing that stuff.
[00:30:47] Speaker B: Stuff. I really think it just came down to trial and error and it's easier now having team to look at your frustration points. But there's still stuff that we do that we don't want to do or would love to hand over. And I think that to a point there's always going to be some things like that, but how do we make them most enjoyable or limit your time doing those tasks? If you. Again, for anyone, if you're showing up to work and you're not enjoying it, especially if it's a business that you've built and you're not enjoying it, then that's not a great place to be in. And. And I've been there with, with previous businesses I've had and production companies where I'm working with clients that I'm doing it for the dollars and hating the work.
So that's kind of one thing that we looked at and said, like, when we started.
It's a startup business. We all got to pull them. We're all going to wear multiple hats. And I like that we have a small team still today that do wear multiple hats. They're not just, this is your role. There's nothing outside. No. Anyone on the team can put their hand up, up and say, hey, I need some help with this, Or I'm overwhelmed, or I'm just really not enjoying doing this. What can we do? And just having, again, those other eyes is not an ego thing. It's like we're all there to help each other out.
And I think that is a really big part of then working out who wants to do different tasks and which ones we either stop doing or we try to bring someone else in to do them.
[00:32:11] Speaker A: Do you think you could. Or you could have built this business yourself with a team, or Mike could have built this business himself with a team? If so, why? And if not, why not?
[00:32:21] Speaker B: I definitely would have stopped a long time ago if I didn't have Mike there pushing.
And again, I mean, it comes down to the systems and the processes and stuff. I. Even as a professional video person, I wasn't treating our business as I would a client. If I went to film for a client, I would make sure that I had checklists and everything, all my questions and everything sorted. Yet when it came time to film a YouTube video, a lot of that stuff just went out the window. And I don't know why. I mean, they say, you know, the electrician has the worst wiring.
So I guess it was kind of a bit of that. And it took me a while and a lot of frustration because if I was filming and something happened, it's then Mike there. This was those, those conversations saying, how did that happen? Like, why? Like, what did you miss? And if you've missed something, it's because you didn't follow a process. And part of me was like, like, yeah, but I've been doing this for years. But I couldn't apply. There was a difference between just doing it, just shooting a quick YouTube video and then going and working on a, you know, a documentary for Netflix or whatever. They. They were too different. But it wasn't until we, until we started to, to look at the processes and stuff around it and like, how do I treat this as a client? Because this isn't a hobby. This is something we want to be successful was something that, that just freed me up massively. So again, this is all the internal struggle and stuff that you know. It's the stuff I know and I used to help people camera. But getting in front of camera myself was just. Yeah. And still does push comfort zones. It's still something I am still trying to get better at. And I just think editing is there for a reason. And if anyone saw how much footage I'm still shooting today to create a 10, 15 minute video, you don't need to be perfect. They're definitely not one take videos. And this is, this is where, you know, our process to make it easier to get the outcome you want is huge.
[00:34:11] Speaker A: It really is fascinating to me that whole sort of editing part and looking at your videos and even the stuff that yourself and Mike are doing on the prom or video accelerator stuff. But I remember watching something that you guys did a while back as well where you. I think you showed some. It might have been on your 1 million subscribers celebration and you showed some outtakes and stuff. But like not being a video person, it was just like, oh, wow. That actually gave me huge comfort to think, yeah, there's a lot of shit that happens in the background that you just don't see. It gets cut out and fantastic for 1 million subscriber celebrations.
[00:34:46] Speaker B: Yeah, they really got me with that one. Jen, our editor, just grabbed some.
[00:34:51] Speaker A: She did a fantastic job.
[00:34:53] Speaker B: Yeah, so that's the stuff that she has to put up with. But it's also to your point, we don't try to hide that. And I agree with you. I saw someone early on, I think it was Tim Schmoyer from Video Creators.
He released a video where he went live and he was creating a YouTube video and he did exactly the same thing. Like, hey, it's Tim. I'll do it again. Hey, it's Tim from Video Creators. I'll do it again. So it's, it's kind of. Unless you've tried to do it, you can definitely get in your head so much. And some days you're on and it's just everything flows and everything works. And there's other days where it's really like pushing, pushing stuff uphill.
So it's, it's knowing what, what is normal, what, what is what is not a good day. And having the ability to go, you know what, we'll come back tomorrow, let's try it again again. Or have to get this done today because of a deadline or something, which adds more pressure. And you know, when you're on a deadline, there's always other stuff that comes up. The neighbor will have his leaf blower on or something like that. And it's, it's being okay with that, that there was another big lesson or learning piece. I mean where I am right now, I'm in a small co working space and up until recently it was really, really quiet. But then it's taken me all week to shoot two videos because of different things happening here that made it really hard for me to shoot videos. So it's still a growth thing. It's still something that, you know, I'm okay with it now, but I know if this was me starting out and these are the things that I'd be, I'd be really stressed over.
[00:36:19] Speaker A: How do you think this level of what I would call authenticity that you guys have in your business has helped the growing of your business? And particularly I know your business is more than YouTube but you know, I can't remember what the figure was, but there's only a. I think it was like a very small percentage of channels actually have achieved 1 million subscribers to date. So you've achieved something that not many people have have. How does the authenticity or the authentic approach do you guys take, do you think has helped your business?
[00:36:48] Speaker B: I guess we kind of look at the content that we want to watch and we want to try and connect with. You know, we always want to connect and we watch people who are like minded people. And the stuff that I watch isn't the overhyped one where someone just feels like they're selling to you. I mean that doesn't gel with us and I don't want to be selling or pitching something.
I also am not someone to run out and create, you know, a short film where I'm creating cinematic B roll in the middle of a tutorial. I'm the kind of person like if I clicked on this video where you said you're going to do something, just tell me how to do it or you know, are you going to show me how to do something? So that's kind of our, our approach to this was how do we give our viewers everything that they need? What would I look for in this, looking at them, what would their comments be? What would their feedback be? But how do we give them then everything, we package all that together, give them everything that they need so they don't need to go and watch five more videos after or they don't need to go and you know, we've opened Pandora's box for them and we've created more headaches than before they clicked on it. So we kind of take that approach through everything is like, how do we show up, how do we help people? Or how do we identify where they're stuck, what their pains and problems are and how do we be the one that shows up to help them? And again, it's just, it's just us sharing our thoughts and opinions based on our experiences. And this is why the opportunity for YouTube, for podcasts, for like, if someone else is already doing what you want them to do, that's not a bad thing. This shows you that people want that stuff and they might want a different opinion, they might want to hear it from you, or they might need to hear it from you versus someone else. So that's kind of our. The thing that keeps, keeps growing for us is like, what other things can I share about? What are the biggest pains, problems that people have and, and the more that we do.
I remember saying to Mike, I never want to speak about, I never want to be a video marketing channel. I never want to tell people how to get views on YouTube. I said, there's too many of those people and I don't want to be one of those people. And he agreed at the time. But yet here we are. The more we learned and the faster it grew. We were looking at the advice and things that people were giving and it wasn't what we did. We've only done one video a week, but there's people saying to grow on YouTube, you need to do daily videos. I'm a video person, I love making videos and I couldn't imagine doing daily videos, so you don't need to do it. So we always look at, we'll take advice from anyone, but then how do we make it work for us? And I think that's kind of then part of the authentic piece is that we're just doing what we want to do and we're helping people with the stuff that we're interested in. I'm not off talking about topics and stuff that I don't know. I'm only talking about the stuff that I've had to research or that I've experienced myself.
[00:39:30] Speaker A: Yeah, it's really great explanation of that. I want to go back to that decision making tool you talked about before. Scissors, paper, rock. Really important stuff.
[00:39:43] Speaker B: Scientific.
[00:39:43] Speaker A: Yeah, very scientific. And it solves so many problems in life. I definitely agree. But here's your chance to maybe spill some mud where you've won an argument. So again, yourself and Mike in this partnership, when have you really seriously disagree with each other and maybe then you've won the argument.
[00:40:02] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a really good question. And to be honest, I think I'm just.
I'm a really easygoing person and I think if I'm in a conversation with anyone and they're just confident, they're adamant that that is the way that something should be. I honestly don't really care. I'll give anything a go. I will always voice my opinion. But it's never, I don't know, I don't hold grudges. I just never. Like, if Mike is adamant that we. He wants to try something or something, you know, that's the other way. Won't work or probably won't work as well. I'm for just going with the flow. And that actually has never come back to bite me in the ass. It's, you know, I trust Mike and I value his opinion and it's, it's. I guess he is leading the direction for, for a lot of our business decisions, but nothing is made without both of us on the same page. But, you know, there's times where it's the same back. The other way, I wouldn't say was you. What was your question around where have I lost one? Or I had to tell him I didn't agree or.
[00:41:00] Speaker A: Well, I was actually giving you the opportunity to tell us where you've won one.
[00:41:03] Speaker B: Oh, where I've won one.
I mean, this, this stuff, it's popping up all the time with little things. I don't. Nothing big comes to mind, like, yeah, Mike, I told you we should do it this way. It's really, it's. Everything for us is something like, let's test it. Like, let's just do webinars. You know, for me, I wasn't putting my hand up because, you know, when Mike says, hey, I think we should do webinars, back of my mind goes, I've never run a webinar. Now I'm the one. I'm assuming it's not Mike that's going to run a webinar because no one knows who he is. So it's all well and good for these ideas to come through, but at some point it means I'm going to have to do something I've never done before. And I like it now. I like the pushing, the comfort zones. I read the book years ago, Obstacle is the way, and I'm so glad I read that book. Where you're looking for, there'll be an easy decision, and you could take the easy way. Or. Or if you look at the obstacle and say, all right, if I actually do this, then I've now done that, and my comfort zone is now at the next level. And I guess while I look at those decisions and things, those ideas that come through and think, that's scary. I've never done that before. I don't think I've ever really said no to it. In a previous client I was working for, I had to learn to skydive, and I'm not afraid of heights. But it was never one of my things where I'm like, I need to skydive.
I've done it. Tandem. Loved it. I think everyone should do a tandem skydive. But to do a solo one, something goes wrong, it's all on you. And it's kind of, do I need to be in that position? No. Am I glad that I've done it? Yes. Because now if I.
God forbid I ever had to jump out of a plane and I had a parachute, I'm sweet. But it was never like, yes, today we're going skydiving. You know, I mean, I've done 53 jumps now. I only have one near death experience. So that's a good, good ratio. But it's the same as, like, speaking on stage. I used to identify as someone who was not a public speaker, scared of public speaking because of school and university experiences where I had to get up and speak on a topic that I wasn't excited about and probably hadn't done any research or anything on. So it was an absolute disaster. But all the stuff's playing out in your head. My first public speaking thing for Primal Video was in a room of 770 people.
And I was absolutely shitting myself. But I'm. And right up until it, I was looking for ways to get out of it. I was pumped that I had the opportunity, but I was. I was that scared about doing it that I was like, all right, if I. If I pretend to be sick, then. Then Michael have to do it. That's fine. And then I was like, I couldn't do that to Mike. But the moment I walked up on stage, I was like, this is actually fun. And, you know, it's kind of now it's not a problem for me. I'll go stand on stage and speak and help people and whatever. I guess that's. That's. That's kind of now like, that's a tick in the box. So it's not that I'm looking for that stuff, but we're open to Challenges. I'm. If you don't try stuff, you'll never know. There's too many people that are just sitting in their box. That's not me. I can't do that. That's, you know, it's all right for you, but I'm like, it wasn't all right for me.
And I think that's, that's the piece that most people don't understand.
The first podcast I was ever on, I was so nervous. Now I think these are, these are, these are awesome fun. I love connecting, I love sharing, I love helping. And thanks again for the insight invite.
[00:44:16] Speaker A: But it's, it's, it's been fantastic fun already, mate.
[00:44:19] Speaker B: All these things that people are just switching off to so much that they could be doing based on past beliefs or beliefs or stories that they're telling themselves.
[00:44:28] Speaker A: Yeah, it's always about challenge yourself, isn't it? But, mate, we need to remind or rewind back to this near death experience. You've got to, you can't leave us hanging. What's this near death experience?
[00:44:38] Speaker B: I was like, should I mention this? Is this going to open a can of worms?
[00:44:42] Speaker A: You certainly have.
[00:44:43] Speaker B: Right, sorry, yeah, I'll give you the real quick version. So I jumped 50. I've done 53 total. A storm is coming in. We were trying to get numbers up, training up, and they decided instead of jumping at 14,000ft, you'd normally open your chute down at around 4,000, 5,000ft. You've then got plenty of time to land on your mark to cycle down. So this one, though, they said, look, before the storm comes in, let's do a hop and pop, which is essentially where you hop out of the plane and pop open your parachute and you're jumping at around 2,000ft instead.
[00:45:14] Speaker A: Instead.
[00:45:15] Speaker B: And in all your training, they tell you that your reserve or your backup parachute may not open, you know, may, may. It may take a thousand feet for it to open. So all this is going through my mind like I'm jumping at 2000. I'm going to fall pretty quick for that first piece. And then if something happened, I need a reserve.
It may take a thousand feet for it to open. That's not much room for error. I mean, BASE jumpers and stuff, some of them jump higher than this. So it's, it was.
[00:45:41] Speaker A: Was.
[00:45:41] Speaker B: Yeah, of course. Of all, all the times to have an issue jumping. I jumped out, counted to two, as they've said, pulled my parachute and it was all bunched up and twisted and I kind of had half a parachute so I'm just like, spiraling down and it's that moment where you're like, this is not a good situation. And they say that time slows down. Yeah. I felt like I had all the time in the world to fix this, but really it's only a matter of saying seconds. And, yeah, I quickly worked out what was wrong with it, that, you know, normally with a parachute, you've got two. Two straps coming out of either side of your shoulders, and they were both on the one side, so it was caught up in the backpack. So options? I could try and fix what I have, or I could try and cut that one away and pull the reserve reserve, but it's already twisted in the bag. What if it doesn't cut away properly? What if I launch my reserve chute and it opens or it launches into the one I've currently got? Then I got nothing. Nothing. So, I mean, all these things, I'm like, why am I in this position where I need to be making the decision on do I cut away a parachute or not? Long story short, I survived.
[00:46:45] Speaker A: Thank God for all of us.
[00:46:48] Speaker B: I thought, I've got to fix what's here. I've got half a parachute and that's better than no parachute. I didn't want to risk it. And I'm over trees. So, yeah, you might get skewered or stabbed on the way down through branches and stuff, but it's not a terrible. The situation could be worse, let's put it that way.
So, yeah, I think it was five or six times. I'm like, climbing, like, trying to pull myself up, to drop back and let it go and to drop back into the bag to release the rest of the shoot. And yeah, it was like the fifth or sixth go, it came right. I did like a half turn and landed straight on the X.
And it was. Yeah, I think we did two more jumps that day. Three more jumps that day, and then that project lost funding. So it's not. Not a bad situation. But I'm still. Today, I'm not like, yes, let's go for a skydive, mate.
[00:47:37] Speaker A: That's crazy stuff. And all I can think about, really, is that of the two brothers, yourself and Mike, it was probably better that it happened to you because you come across as that guy that can just, you know, make quick decisions. Let's just do it. So Mike would probably plan for the last thousand meters and then it hits the ground.
[00:47:56] Speaker B: But maybe, maybe.
[00:47:59] Speaker A: But, you know, again, I'm probably more of a mic style generally, like, you know, a Bit more process orientated. And I like to feel like I'm making the right decision, not just a decision. I'm not saying you don't, but, you know, some of us take a bit more. We've got to make sure we've got a right plan before we do it, not just sometimes jump in to do it. And yeah, that means I'm not necessarily great in a crisis. And that means Mike may not necessarily be great in a crisis, but someone like you maybe think on your feet a little bit quickly.
[00:48:23] Speaker B: Could be the wrong decision.
[00:48:26] Speaker A: Sorry.
[00:48:26] Speaker B: It could be the wrong decision, though.
[00:48:28] Speaker A: Well, look, it can be.
You've made a decision. You've obviously done some sort of right decision in that scenario because as you said, you're still alive, mate.
[00:48:36] Speaker B: Made it. Yeah.
[00:48:38] Speaker A: With some of that personality type and you've touched on those. And again, this is not a podcast about personality types in this episode, but really important in the work that we do and understanding people.
You mentioned about what you used to do with your clients and the preparation and stuff and then your own business. Maybe you didn't have their level of preparation.
And I sense that getting to know you a bit more, that's probably more your style, that sometimes just jumping in and doing stuff is okay and less preparation.
But you and Mike talk a lot about the preparation need before you just point and shoot in your business. So I guess keeping the focus on you, how much discipline have you needed in your own development to make sure that you stay true to that because you understand the value of it?
[00:49:25] Speaker B: So now seeing the value of it, the moment I started to see the value on it, now it's.
It's normal for me. And I look back to the things that I used to do, like just push, go live and wing it.
And they're the worst live streams. That was stressful for me. They wouldn't have been fun for anyone to watch because there was no real plan. There was one where I literally freaked out and shut the live stream down and made it look like there was technical difficulties.
And it was all because there was no plan. I didn't even, like have a few bullet points down of. All right, quick intro.
These are the topics we're going to cover. Then open it up for Q. Like, this is now the stuff. Like, I wouldn't jump on anything without some points or some idea as to what was going to happen. It makes it a better piece of content. It makes it way more fun, way more enjoyable that you're like, okay, absolute worst case.
I've got stuff we can talk about or you know, you're kind of looking at the worst case scenario and know how are you okay with that? What can you do to make the worst case scenario not really a bad thing? And it really is from having those experiences where you hit the worst worst case scenario. And so I, I like now that yeah, live streams and stuff are fun. I, I used to be really scared of doing them again. I used to do them as part of a business. You know, I used to run them for, for Australian government live streams, you know, when they couldn't go down if you got that many people watching them. But a lot of. Then again those processes when I'm just going live, I didn't have backup Internet or I didn't.
Or a run sheet which I'd be giving them.
It's, it's. I just thought I could wing it and now the thought of that to me is just crazy. And it's, it's way, way more fun and less stressful when you have a plan.
[00:51:10] Speaker A: Here's our opportunity for some B roll maybe when we do some editing on this. What's the worst video you've done and that's still on YouTube accessible.
[00:51:18] Speaker B: I have to pick one, I think.
[00:51:20] Speaker A: Yeah, just anyone?
[00:51:21] Speaker B: All the ones on our, all our early only ones. I think the first three videos I didn't blink. There is next to no energy. They're around topics that again, people don't want or they can't find because they're not searching for that. I mean I, I thought it would be a great idea to go and shoot a editing tutorial at the beach or editing tips video at the beach. Just because we, we live in a nice spot. Good background. Nope, it added nothing to the video. It made it really hard to shoot. There was just too much wind and the wave, noise and whatever and, and those videos tanked. But at the same time I was so nervous and I hadn't practiced, I hadn't worked out what I wanted to say and they're all still there. Feel free to go and have a laugh. And I would encourage everyone to go and have a look because it is a growth thing. Just because you start there doesn't mean that that's where you're going to finish. Every new video is more practice you're going to have. And I mean for anything really. The more you do something, the better you're going to be at it.
And this is, I mean I still say I'm nowhere near perfect. And to me it is. How do I do it better how do I do it faster? How do I bring the energy to the video where I'm excited about it, even if it's a topic that I've talked about a thousand times or I'm not that excited about? That's a hard one because if you're not excited about the content or the thing that you're teaching, your viewers can't be excited about watching it.
So little things like that have been great lessons to learn.
And it's.
Yes. Now a process like this is. This is what they need. Remember to smile, remember to have fun with it, and that there's people on the other end of this that need to hear this.
It's those kinds of things that are in the process.
[00:52:59] Speaker A: Have you guys ever thought of taking down some of the older stuff?
[00:53:02] Speaker B: Oh, I've thought about it. Mike won't allow it.
No, I'm okay with it now. And this is where I used to, I think in all of our channel, besides one video that we had to take down where something was. Something changed and it was then going to be misleading people. So the content was an incorrect. I think we've only pulled down one video and it was an early video that I just thought was really bad. But then I've looked at the other ones that are still there and this is exactly the same. I'm not blinking in these videos. I look like deer in headlights. And there's still some there with that. So it's not detrimental to the channel growth. A lot of people think that, you know, everyone's going to watch everything or everyone's going to listen to everything. They. They don't. They're going to find the one that they need or the one that YouTube has suggested to them or whatever the platform. They're going to find that one. One. So that's where your goal with no matter what content you're creating is. How do I make this one amazing so that if someone is meeting me for the first time on this piece of content, that they get some personality, they most importantly get what they need and don't have to go somewhere else afterwards.
[00:54:03] Speaker A: I guess when I think of that and the serious undertone for me is that, like your whole journey is accessible on YouTube and if you look at a primal video today and it's, you know, they're fantastic and so much value adding content.
But. And then you look at one, maybe, you know, three, four, but you know that five, six, seven years ago, then the serious undertone is that's the journey and that's what you're saying you're always learning. You keep shifting. And I actually think there's huge power in what you guys have done, and maybe a lot of YouTubers do that, but just having that old stuff there because people can see that this is where we started. You don't start at the top. You start here and you learn, you build, you grow, you change, you test all those things you mentioned. And it's all part of the primal video story story, isn't it?
[00:54:51] Speaker B: Yeah. And I guess with our goal to help people with this and to. To really, I guess, go through the journey that we have, but do it much faster and much easier and, you know, without needing to learn all the lessons the hard way, then we. We have to leave those there. I want to leave those there. People need to know that their first videos are going to be their worst videos and that it is a growth journey, that they need to push forward and learn. And too many people give up too early because it is difficult. I mean, we weren't born to do this. It is a skill that you, you know, you want to do it. You need to learn and need to learn to refine and adapt. But yeah, too many people give up too early.
[00:55:28] Speaker A: Let's talk about this community, you know, not so small community you've built. You know, there's. I think when I checked, it was 1.16 million subscribers on YouTube. I think the Facebook closed group with the PVA was sort of 800 or so members.
What responsibility do you take as a leader of that community? How important is that to you?
[00:55:50] Speaker B: A lot of it. I mean, in terms of YouTube subscriber numbers, it's an interesting one because to me, it's a crazy number. I never thought that. I mean, it was never a goal for us to have X amount of subscribers. I know when we started Mike and I thought, you know what, it'd be pretty cool to get 20,000 subscribers. That seems like a credible number. And that's enough for us to kind of go and speak about some of these things and to help people create their videos. And it just kind of kept growing. And it's. To me, it's. It's a. It's a little strange. It's a little weird knowing that we have this following, but at the same time, it really is. I mean, yeah, there's real people behind it, but the value is in the connections, not in the number on the screen. That's the thing. I think I want everyone to remember and, you know, as we said earlier, like, the views, like, they're real people, a thousand views, that's a real people people.
And the ones that have chosen to subscribe, they're the ones that want more from you. So, I mean, to me it's motivating, it's encouraging to see that people like what we're doing. But at the same time, I guess our approach hasn't really changed from the, the 10,000, the 5,000. Besides what we're actually doing to make it work, it's still to show up and help people with this stuff. And I think that's the important piece. And if you're coming from that place, the rest of it, the business and stuff can, it will come. But if, if you're doing it for views, if you're doing it for subscribers, I mean, I'm sure you probably could make it work, but it's a totally different business and a lot of people will see straight through what you're trying to do. So, yeah, I'm not sure if I answered your question there at all, but the, the vanity metrics, I mean, yeah, it's nice to have. I'm not going to say that it's not, but it doesn't really mean anything. Having that amount of subscribers doesn't mean that our videos are guaranteed to go to the front page of YouTube. It doesn't mean that, you know, more people are going to subscribe. If anything, YouTube and a lot of other platforms are moving away from those numbers. I mean, if you go to YouTube, for anyone listening, if you've been to YouTube recently and you've watched some videos on there, did you actually subscribe to those channels yourself? I know for a lot of the channels that I watch the content, I don't have to subscribe. I just go to YouTube and it's recommending all their stuff. And I'm not subscribed to a lot of the content. Content that I watch, you don't need to. The algorithm is getting that good that you don't need to be following subscribing. Same as Tick Tock, same as Instagram with reels. Like it's showing you content that it thinks that you want to watch. You don't need to follow, you don't need to subscribe. I know that might sound weird from someone who has a million subscribers, but the value, the, the, the. I guess the weight of that is nothing compared to what it used to to be.
Now it's about adding value in your videos, entertaining your viewers, giving them what they need, and then they can go about their day. But next time they're coming back looking for something or they want to be entertained. Your content will go straight to the front for them. So it's about getting the right people on your videos and then they will see more of your content. If they stick around and watch it, they don't need to subscribe. So the vanity metrics is something. I mean, YouTube started rounding them off. Off. You don't get the full, you know, everything you said. We have 1.16. Like, it's not all written out there, it's all rounded now. And Instagram removing likes and those kinds of things. So I guess where I'm going with this is if your goal is to get X amount of subscribers, I'd say that, you know, maybe to start with, that's not a bad little milestone. But if you can shift it to how do I get an impact goal or even if it is a monetary goal, there's nothing wrong with that either because it means that your content is working.
But if you're creating those goals, they're much more beneficial for the, for the business and how much impact you can have with your content moving forward.
[00:59:34] Speaker A: I guess in a nutshell, what I understand you saying is that, you know, focus on delivering value and if you focus on that, then people that like that value will join and they may just subscribe as well. But that needs to be the driver, delivering value to people's eyeballs.
[00:59:50] Speaker B: Yeah. And you don't need to be for everyone. You will get negative comments. You will. We still get some today. They're a lot less than they used to be. Just a lot of Chris Martin comments. And I don't think they're negative.
It really is. Yeah.
How do you show up and help? And those are the, as I said, from that documentary project I worked on when I was first starting out with this super successful businesses, nicest people. And they're just helping people with the stuff that they want to talk about. That's the approach that we've taken.
[01:00:19] Speaker A: You mentioned before about, you know, we're just, we're making things work. Is there a. And this is building the community.
Can you put your finger on that single biggest thing you felt that has worked for you to build these communities.
[01:00:34] Speaker B: That you're leading, I guess getting found. I mean you can have full team to help you and all your plans on how you can engage with this community. But if you can't attract people in or if they can't find you, then what's the point? The same as all the people spend time making their videos and not marketing them or not giving what YouTube needs to actually put them in front of the right people. So you end up spending all this time making something and then no one sees it or no one buys it if it's a case of a course or a membership. So our whole thing is to how do we get people to find us so we don't have to go there? DOOR KNOCKING Hey, I'm Justin. Come join. My thing, it's, we're showing up when they need us. So they're searching for something, they're typing something in what is best editing software. How do I do this?
And our goal is to show up in there and build up that reciprocity and add value and then that might be it. With our journey with someone, that's all good. Someone's watched our video, hopefully we've helped them or entertained them and that could be it. There's others that will click the affiliate links and they'll bring revenue to the business. There's others that will go on and join our courses and programs. But you don't need to have that. We're not selling. We're just coming from that place of adding value. And the right people will want to take that next step. They're like, I really liked how much you helped me on YouTube. How else can I work with you? So that's kind of our approach.
[01:02:00] Speaker A: It leads into something I also wanted to ask, which is about the, I guess the various platforms that are out there.
My knowledge and involvement with promo video and the accelerator program is that you're very concentrated and focused on YouTube and you put a bit of stuff out on Instagram. Now it seems to be ramping up a little bit more on Instagram.
Why those platforms and not all of the other platforms as well? I know you're on LinkedIn, but you're not that active.
There's Facebook's, all that sort of stuff. Why is YouTube the thing and Instagram as well for you guys?
[01:02:34] Speaker B: Great question. And this is where we see so many people feel like they need to be everywhere and where they end up being is nowhere.
Speak to everyone, you speak to no one kind of thing. So we'd much rather see people go all in on one platform, just pick one as your primary thing, thing and then grow that have one audience. So for us, all roads pointed to YouTube. Yes, we're growing a Facebook page, but the only thing we post on there is links to our YouTube video, which is probably the worst thing you could do to grow on Facebook.
But we'd much rather Manage and build one thing than be like, oh, I need to do a post and a reel and, and I got to tweet this and whatever. Like it's way simpler and easier just to focus on one now. Yes, recently we've ramped up our Instagram too. But that was because, you know, one of our amazing team members put their hand up, said, hey, can I take over your Instagram? Can I, can I try some stuff on there? Which is a big yes from me. But why Instagram and not the others?
We did play around on LinkedIn a little bit. We did a six month test releasing two videos a week on there. And it, it's not the place where I go like the apps that I open. I like watching people's stories on Instagram. That's where, you know, let's play in the places that we like to go to, whether we're creating content there or not. Tick tock, man. I'm not really. That's not me yet. I never say never, but you know, the dancing and things, that's, that's a whole. That's. We'll leave that for Chris. That's not for me.
[01:04:00] Speaker A: But you do great, I'm sure.
[01:04:03] Speaker B: But yeah, for us it's, it's go all in on, on one or all roads point to that one. And then it's much easier to then direct people to other places as well. But I will say off the back of this, like, what our business is actually is the email list. So the front of our business is the YouTube channel. But our goal with the YouTube channel, besides showing up and helping people, is to, to grow the business piece which is the email list. The direct communication without an algorithm or you know, without any filtering where people are signing up because they want to hear more from us. So if something happened to our YouTube channel, I mean, our business isn't done. Yeah, you know, we would feel it. But it's, it's not over because we have direct line of communication through our email list and we can deepen the relationship with them with all the autom and stuff that we've built out to help adding value and direct them to our library of content.
All of that's happening on autopilot 24 7, which does bring in more people into our accelerator program and clicking our affiliate links and brings in money as well as adding value to them.
[01:05:07] Speaker A: Yeah. Once again you raise a great point. And maybe if you can just talk to that a little bit in some depth around.
At the end of the day, Primal video doesn't own YouTube. YouTube.
Google owns YouTube. So if it's not there, you said you've got sort of strategies in place and that list is gold. But how important, how fundamental is it that people get that mindset? Because if your business revolves around anything that you don't own, that's a massive risk, isn't it?
[01:05:35] Speaker B: Oh, for sure. I mean, how many people have we heard are getting their Facebook ad accounts shut down recently?
And if that's your sole traffic source, you know, imagine you're coming into a launch, you want to run a webinar and you go to turn on your traffic and it doesn't work. That's a place that we don't want to play. So for us, and this is why we like YouTube, is the organic traffic you can build off the back of it from just one video a week, or one video every other week is the lifetime of that content sticks around so much longer. So we have videos that are still coming up on seven years old, that are still bringing in a thousand views, still people signing up to our email list off the back of it, still clicking our affiliate link links and that's, you know, a seven year old content. And obviously every week has been another new video since then. So you build this amazing organic traffic engine where we run a webinar or anything. We don't, we don't run ads. We can literally send an email out and get a ton of people sign up for it because we've already built up that reciprocity and because they want to be there instead of us trying to grab their attention with an ad. It is a much longer strategy. And if you need fast eyeballs on something, if you are running a webinar and you don't have that, then pay traffic for sure. But the, the long game and our goal has always been we don't want to be reliant on the pay to play systems. We don't want to have to spend money to get people in. How do we build up enough value and reciprocity where they're coming to us and they're filtering themselves through. And so that's what we use our email list for. So if something happened to YouTube, we can contact them, we can say, hey, here's our new channel or, or hey, we're growing on Instagram or whatever it is. Have you checked that out yet? But again, it's coming from that place of adding value because that is the business. You don't want to be spamming and selling stuff and pissing people off on there. It's there to deepen that relationship.
[01:07:22] Speaker A: Yeah, mate. Once again thanks for explaining that. I mentioned earlier in the show about you guys are always seem to be having fun and I remember seeing some images on Instagram I think of your Christmas party and you had Chris Martin faces going. Yeah, just face fun, fun stuff. What's the, the most fun thing about doing what you do?
[01:07:41] Speaker B: Yeah, so the Christmas party thing, I had no idea. I, I, I rocked up and they all had little, you know, face masks.
[01:07:47] Speaker A: So that wasn't yours, your team's fun?
[01:07:49] Speaker B: No, not at all. They waited till I went in to, to order food or something. I came out and there's all of them there wearing these masks and because Mike couldn't make the even make it over he, they even had a cardboard cut out of Mike there too. So yeah, a bit of fun. And this is again, but just, I.
[01:08:04] Speaker A: Mean just speaking to that very quickly that coming from your team, that's just the essence of the culture in your organization. Like that's okay for them to do that actually it's embraced. So I mean it speaks volumes of what, what you guys have set up and the way you act and the way you run your business.
[01:08:18] Speaker B: Yeah, I guess that's what I was going to say. It's like this is, that was all them. They know that we're here to have fun. Like we don't want to be not enjoying work and we don't want them to be in that position as well. Yes, there's going to be days and sometimes tasks that they don't want to do. But at the same time there's just as many if not a lot more tasks that we know are in their wheelhouse and we know that they're, you know, they're putting their hand up to do. So we try to have fun, we try to break it up. Like we will go. Our office is right near the beach. So literally like most mornings, if it's sunny, which is a lot here, we walk down and grab a coffee and that's kind of our team meeting, team catch up. It doesn't even need to be work focused.
It's more just kind of setting the day. It's not, you know, while it's, it's a 9 o' clock start. It doesn't mean that we have to be in there kicking goals and part of that is the lifestyle of it as well. So that's kind of our thing. We want people to enjoy, have the flexibility but then when they're working, they're enjoying it and they're Focused and they're kicking their goals.
[01:09:18] Speaker A: Then mate, is there a story in the community that you've grown that has given you most satisfaction? I guess I'm talking more of a member of the PVA community. They don't have to have made it to a million subscribers, but just one that has given you the most satisfaction in how you guys have been able to help them.
[01:09:35] Speaker B: Be really hard to pick one, but one that stands out was when the pandemic hit, a lot of people lost their income. Right? You know, it says, you know, nothing new here, but some of our members, one in particular had already been implementing the strategies and stuff that we teach. So when her in person coaching programs and stuff shut down because she couldn't do them, she pivoted on online using the stuff that we teach and she like very quickly recovered her full time wage and now is a lot more from just switching to the online stuff. So that's something that like we think is awesome.
We want to help people build a business or build an income doing the stuff that they enjoy. And it doesn't, you know, we don't all need to be in a 9 to 5 stuck doing the stuff that you don't want, want. And if you're listening to this and that's hard to take, I mean everything is a decision. I mean you might be in a place of life where you have to do what you got to do right now, that's awesome. But how do you start doing in your downtime, like maybe stop watching Netflix as much or whatever. How do you start looking at the things that what does light you up and it doesn't mean you need to go start a YouTube channel, but maybe that's an option or at least helping people or offering some coaching or consulting or volunteering in the areas that you want to be playing in and that you enjoy, enjoy spending your time. And look at how can you help and what do people, what do they, what help do they need in those areas? And if you can start to build something out from that, even if it's just side hustle or a couple of hours here and there, you will find that you're enjoying it because you enjoy those things. And then when it starts to grow and starts to bring in income like that is that is the best thing. So we want to try and get people to that point where they can see not just oh cool, affiliate marketing works or YouTube works, they need to see it for themselves.
Because when you get your first affiliate check or YouTube check, whatever come through, even if it for most people, it's going to be really, really small when they hit that first one. But even that just shows you it's proof that you've done it. So that's where we want to get people to so that then they're like, okay, this works. I just made my first dollar online and how do I get more of that?
[01:11:47] Speaker A: Flipping the coin, mate. What really pains you? When people come into the community and, you know, not, you know, you're not seeing the success you'd like to see.
[01:11:56] Speaker B: For them, I would say it's normally the people that just have a different approach or different attitude to what we kind of want to nurture and build in the community that they've been. They've uploaded three videos and they haven't hit a thousand subscribers or something. So their expectations are definitely a little out.
And with YouTube specifically, it's definitely not as fast to grow as, or to get views as some of the other platforms. And you could post a video on Facebook, you might get a thousand views, you might post the same video on YouTube, you might get five views or no views.
A view is classes different things on different platforms, but people will then go for one over the other based on again the numbers, the vanity metrics. But it's not the lifetime of that content on YouTube is going to stick around for years or can stick around for years and it might take three months for that one video to take off. So the thing that I guess annoys me the most is the, the I'm happy to like, this is part of what we do. I enjoy it. But it is still where people just come in and their expectation is, is not aligned with, I guess, where it should be. Yes, you hear about those channels that blow up overnight, but that's not most people. I mean, we've been doing this for seven years. The first few were definitely dabbling and not very productive, I guess on the growth side of things. But that's what it took us to figure it out. But that's now why we're pumped to share it. We want people to get where they want to go much, much faster.
[01:13:30] Speaker A: As we said, that's an important part of the learning journey. Have you ever broken up with a client? They've come into the community. It's just not the right place for them. They've created waves and you need to say, hey, bye, bye.
[01:13:42] Speaker B: There's I think only two.
So we have I think just over 10, 50 members right now. And yeah, I mean, as you said, like there's not all of them have joined the Facebook group. We have members that are just happy to pay and never sign in based on them saying thank you for the YouTube content that we're putting out for free. So it's, it's crazy what some people sign up for, but I mean, our goal is we, we want the action takers in there and we. The same, same with everything. Our YouTube content's not for everyone. Our courses and programs aren't for everyone. Everyone. So we, we want to use that as sort of a filter. Are we aligned? Are we. You know, do you. If you like our approach and what we've built, then this is what we can help you with. But yeah, we've had to ask two people to leave. Their expectations were for the price point of the product, weren't a fit. And you're expecting to get my, my phone number and call me 247 when they had a question for a 37 US price point product. Yeah, just mismatch of expectations.
Yeah.
[01:14:38] Speaker A: I have to say from personal experience, it's unbelievable value for the price point. I know there's PVA 2.0 or whatever coming in and a change in pricing, but I'm sure it's going to be enormous value again because it's amazing what you guys do. So well done on what you guys are doing and keep doing it.
[01:14:55] Speaker B: Thank you very much.
That's awesome to hear. And it's the success stories and stuff that come back through that we really trying to encourage because there's a lot of people that in, in every space that are just there watching what's, what's happening. But it's not until again you can either see someone in your scenario or your, your, your similar situation succeeding with it, that might be enough to ignite it or you, you, you actually take action yourself. But once you start, that's the thing that you're going to be motivated to keep going.
[01:15:25] Speaker A: So, Justin, I always like to sort of come to a close by asking our guests what's had the greatest impact in your own leadership journey? If you can share that with us, that'd be fantastic. Buddy.
[01:15:36] Speaker B: That's a great question and a hard one to answer because just to pick one thing, look, I would say just having the approach of always be learning, always be trying and testing new things that, yeah, there's going to be failures along the way, but they're not bad things.
We've definitely hired and fired, hired quite a few people that haven't been a fit or were a mismatch for what we thought the role should be. So it's always just, it's looking for the, the next, like, what can I do to improve that? Like doing those little debriefs on every little thing, whether it's, you know, you're filming or your, your, your scripting or anything like that. In my case, it's looking at where are you spending your time? Where can you free everything up? It's just trying to refine everything. And I know that that sounds very generic. Generic. But it is huge if you actually start to do it. What's one little thing you could improve this week based on how last week went? Like, so it's just looking at what went well, what didn't go well, what. And you know, this is the brainstorming piece of it is, is a whole interesting like fun exercise. Nothing's off limits. Come up with crazy ideas because at some point they could be possible. They could be the things that really shift the business forward. They won't be always crazy. So it's yeah, striving for that improvement, mate.
[01:16:52] Speaker A: I love it. As they say, leaders are learners and you've demonstrated a lot of that through what we've spoken about today.
And again, just anyone goes onto Primal Video's YouTube channel, hit that subscribe button, definitely do that. But have a look at the videos and have a look at the journey that the guys have had. It's fantastic. And it really builds confidence that, hey, people can do this with the right discipline, that sort of true north. Always learning, but staying true to where you're going and have belief in yourself. So I've seen a lot of that through the conversation we've had today. I've thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. You're a fantastic dude. You're a pretty decent beach geek. I have to say. I haven't met too many beach geeks, but you're probably top of the list, I'd say, mate. But thanks very much for coming on the Culture of Things podcast today. I really appreciate you, buddy.
[01:17:35] Speaker B: Thank you very much for having me on.
It was good fun.
[01:17:44] Speaker A: Reflecting on the interview with Justin, what resonated with me over overall was the alignment to the five laws of stratospheric success made famous by Bob Berg and John David Mann in their best selling book, the Go Giver. The first law is the law of value, which states your true worth is determined by how much you give in value than you take in payment. The Culture of Things is a member of the Primal Video Accelerator program and I can tell you the value for money offered by Justin and the team is Second to none. The second law is the law of compensation. This says your income is determined by how many people you serve and how well you serve them. There are more than a thousand members in the Primal Video Accelerator program and this continues to grow. And what about the 1 million plus YouTube subscribers? Justin and the team have a system in place which can serve an infinite number of people. The third law is the law of influence. Influence which states your influence is determined by how abundantly you place other people's interests first. Justin and the team are truly focused on helping people grow their brand and scale their revenue with video.
And every single bit of content they create supports this focus.
The fourth law is the law of authenticity. This says the most valuable gift you have to offer is yourself. Justin is 100% authentic. Authentic. He shows up as his true self. Whether he's doing a YouTube video, some Instagram content, or doing a podcast interview. What you see is what you get. And this is consistent across the platforms they use. He's also 100% focused on being a better version of himself by improving a little bit every day. The fifth law is the law of reciprocity, which states the key to effective giving is to stay open to receiving. The best example of this reciprocity is the Primal Video Affiliate Recipe. Revenue Because Justin and the team share so much knowledge, product reviews and recommendations and ideas to grow your brand and scale your revenue with video. Their loyal community. Repay him by buying the products and tools he recommends. This provides another fantastic source of revenue, only available because they are open to receiving off the back of the value they're providing. In keeping with the law of value, here are my three key takeaways from my conversation with Channel Justin. My first key takeaway Leaders are clear on their purpose and passion. Justin's purpose is to create a lifestyle business where he can have fun. He's also focused on only working with people who he actually wants to work with. His passion is helping other people create their own lifestyle business that allows them to control their own life. Being clear on his purpose and passion is what drives him every day. My second key takeaway Leaders know there's always a next level in Justin. There's an intrinsic drive for improvement. He's striving for the 1% improvement on everything every day. He's seeking feedback constantly and input from the team. As he said, if you aren't taking on feedback, it's very hard to grow. And it's this mindset that helps him and the team consistently move to the next level. My third key takeaway leaders mitigate risk. Justin made it very clear they are growing an email list. The email list is their business and it's something they can control.
YouTube is the front of the business, but it's not the business. They can't control it. Never be reliant on something you can't control.
Leaders focus on identifying risk and mitigating it. So, in summary, my three key takeaways were Leaders are clear on their purpose and passion, leaders know there's always a next level, and leaders mitigate risk. If you want to talk about culture, leadership or teamwork, or have any questions or feedback about the episode, leave me a comment on the socials or contact
[email protected] thanks for joining me. And remember, the best outcome is on the other side of a genuine conversation station.
